INTERVIEWER: Let's move on to the browser, the one on your computer, smartphone, and tablets. It's one of the most important tools in our everyday life. We use the browser to read news, watch TV, check email, chat with friends, shop, book tickets, thousands of the things we now do on the web. That is why it's so important which browser we use and how it works. The most common browser is still Internet Explorer from Microsoft, but Mozilla's Firefox has long been the second most popular. The official Firefox version 4 launches in a few days, including a model for Android phones. On this occasion, Tristan Nitot from Mozilla's European headquarters in Paris tells the story of Firefox and some of the new version 4 features.

TRISTAN NITOT: Our goal when we launched Firefox in 2004 was to reintroduce choice and competition on the browser market.

INTERVIEWER: 10 years ago, Microsoft's Internet Explorer pretty much sat on the market. Netscape, that used to be very popular, was beaten. And besides from Netscape, there were only minor niche projects like the Norwegian Opera browser, and a couple of years later, Apple's Safari, which at that time only worked with Mac. But from the ruins of Netscape rose Mozilla's Firefox launching it's official version 1.0 in November 2004. Today, a little more than six years later, Firefox has become a huge success, says Tristan Nitot.

TRISTAN NITOT: We have succeeded amazingly. There are like 400 million active users of Firefox. We have roughly 25% market share in the world, 33% in Europe, and in some places like Poland or Germany, we're approaching 50%.

INTERVIEWER: However, with this success comes a certain pressure. To a high degree, Firefox boosted browser awareness and offered a long-awaited alternative to Internet Explorer. But it also opened the battle for market shares. And today there are at least a handful of browsers out there fighting.

TRISTAN NITOT: This was quite an achievement. But you have to be careful what you wish for, because we wanted competition and now we have it. Because in the meantime, other vendors have started creating some good browsers.

INTERVIEWER: In practice, however, the big five share the market. Globally, Internet Explorer is still the largest, although their share slowly decreases. Next comes Firefox, Google's Chrome, Apple's Safari, and Norwegian Opera. The remaining are competing over a few percent of the market. The exact numbers vary from month to month depending on which method of measurement is used, but the overall development is pretty stable.

Slowly but surely, Internet Explorer loses users. Firefox's number remains stable. The alternative browsers, such as Chrome, Safari, and Opera, are gaining percentages. During the last couple of years, especially Google's Chrome has drawn attention. The people behind-- among them an important Danish team of programmers-- have focused on speed and that the browser is fast and display pages quickly. But slowly, more and more features are added. The latest being a web store selling browser applications and add-ons. To Tristan Nitot and Mozilla, the main competitor is still Microsoft's Internet Explorer, he says.

TRISTAN NITOT: We keep an eye on Google and Chrome of course. I mean, we're very aware of this competitive thing. But actually our goal is Internet Explorer more than Chrome. I understand it may sound counterintuitive, but if you look at graphs showing the evolution of market share, you will see that Chrome is hurting Microsoft and not us.

INTERVIEWER: Looking at the statistics for the last two, three years, it seems that Tristan is right. Firefox share is fairly stable, while Chrome has worked its way up to around 10% since its launch in September 2008. And those shares come mainly from Internet Explorer. On the other hand, it's quite likely that a proportion of new Chrome users actually come from Firefox. But other users have moved from Explorer to Firefox and therefore kept their shares stable. So far, so good.

But the nice figures should not lead anyone to rest on the laurels. Chrome is constantly updating its browser. And during the last couple of years, Microsoft has focused on Explorer updates, and has a version 9 coming out soon. Therefore Mozilla is planning to launch its Firefox version 4 within the next couple of weeks. Beta versions have been available for some months now, which is why Tristan can tell us about new features both in the version launching now and in future versions.

TRISTAN NITOT: What you will notice at first sight is that the user interface, the appearance, of the product of Firefox 4 will have evolved significantly.

INTERVIEWER: In general, focus has been on streamlining version 4 both regarding webpage load time and in relation to user interface, says Tristan Nitot. Simplicity and effectiveness have become important parameters of competition especially after the launch of Google's Chrome and former Firefox versions might have had a tendency to look overloaded.

Another new function that Tristan would like to highlight is the so-called app tab. Tabs with the webpages you often use can have their permanent place in the browser without them necessarily taking up a lot of space.

TRISTAN NITOT: It means that it's always handy. It takes very little room in your list of tabs, but it's always there. Even if you have 1000's or 100's of tabs open, it's always there, so you can very quickly check your online status or send emails and things like that.

INTERVIEWER: During the last couple of years, some of the newer alternative browsers, such as Flock and RockMelt, have tried to integrate our many social networks directly into the browser, but have not gained a great deal of market share. Mozilla keeps an eye on them because there's no doubt that social activities on Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare, et cetera, have become key in the use of the internet. But Mozilla has not wanted to do that blindfolded. In order to integrate that kind of use in the browser, it has to be done in the right way, says Tristan Nitot.

TRISTAN NITOT: We can leverage this to do something about social, but we also want to do it in a very different way.

INTERVIEWER: So far Mozilla has had no problem waiting. One of the central features in Firefox is that anybody can make their own ad-ons to the browser and customize it to their own needs. This means that for a long time you've been able to install ad-ons, which for instance makes it possible to show Facebook feeds, write Twitter updates directly from the browser's address bar, and much more. One of the reasons that Mozilla has wanted to wait with embracing things like Facebook is the question of access to personal data, bookmarks surf history, passwords for different services, and so on. An example of the challenge and how to solve it is found in the new Sync feature, says Tristan.

TRISTAN NITOT: Sync enables you to sync your browser history, your bookmarks, and your passwords between several versions of Firefox. So you have a Firefox in the office on the desktop. You have Firefox on the laptop. And you have Firefox in your pocket on an Android device.

INTERVIEWER: Smartphone users in particular have had a huge advantage when using bookmarks from the computer browser, because you don't have to type too many searches and URLs on the relatively small and clumsy mobile keypads. But in order to use that kind of synchronization between devices, your browsing history must be stored somewhere on the internet so that you can use it no matter where you access the web from. As long as you're logged in, that is. The solution to that problem has been a key priority to Mozilla. Because it is not optimal that important information about ourselves and our activities are kept with Google, Facebook, and other big, private companies, says Tristan Nitot.

TRISTAN NITOT: The web is about participation. It was built to enable people to participate and create new websites and use content and produce content. And if you suddenly have a central thing, which is a private company who's having such a large influence, this is not scaleable, and this is not reasonable.

INTERVIEWER: If you use Google Chrome's similar synchronization features, then all the information lies with Google. That is not necessarily a huge concern for the many people who already use Google services from searches to Gmail, maps, documents, and pictures. But for Mozilla, it is crucial that the users themselves are in control. The synchronization feature offers the option that technically savvy users simply install their own server that stores information about your web activities.

TRISTAN NITOT: Sync is open source, so that means you can install your own version of the server if you want. Of course there is a Mozilla version of a server running, so if you want to create an account quickly, there you go. You can do that and access immediately to the service. But you can run your own server, if you want.

INTERVIEWER: However the majority of users probably will not go that far. Tristan emphasizes that all browser data is encrypted so that it's definitely only oneself who can see and use the data when synchronizing with other computers or mobile browsers. That is, of course, very important if you have vital personal information. But it's also a kind of ideological battle, says Tristan Nitot. Because when we use services like Facebook and Google, we don't pay directly. But that doesn't mean that their services are free, he says.

TRISTAN NITOT: It's interesting because these days you have the impression that everything is free, and it is not free.

INTERVIEWER: All our searches and so on are tracked and logged. And in that sense, we pay for many of the free services with data about ourselves and our behavior. Not in the sense that Google employees know that that exact user's name is Peter Jensen and has visited dr.dk and clicked on such and such article about the royal family. But the underlying systems know it and typically use it to customize and target consumer advertising.

TRISTAN NITOT: It's a product that you actually buy or barter in exchange of your private data. So we don't do that at Mozilla. But most of the industry does it.

INTERVIEWER: Companies like Google must make money and increase share value, and that's fine. It's just not Mozilla's model. Mozilla is a nonprofit organization and does not collect data about users in order to show them ads. And that's important to us, says Tristan. But social networks, networking, and personal presence on many platforms is important and will only become more important. And Mozilla knows that. Therefore one can expect Mozilla to try to solve that challenge in its own way. Not necessarily in the first version of Firefox 4, but soon, promises Tristan Nitot.

TRISTAN NITOT: I mean identity and social are two issues that are extremely important, and we want Mozilla to tackle these things. And you would expect something from Mozilla in the future in those directions.

INTERVIEWER: You've been playing with the beta version of Firefox 4?

Yes. And I actually think it works just fine especially if you're used to using Firefox.

So the version you can download now, it's a super-fine browser?

It's super fast, and the Sync function is exciting to play with. However the Android version of Firefox 4 does not quite compete with the other browsers on the Android platform. It's a little slow. But compared to previous beta versions, it's already much faster and better. So I'm sure they will have a good version ready for the official launch. And it's still a beta, so there are probably improvements coming.

Mozilla has recently introduced a kind of net shop?

Yes. Tristan Nitot told about Mozilla's idea for a shared app store for browser programs, the way Google has done it. But Mozilla wants one that works on different browsers, said Tristan Nitot.

TRISTAN NITOT: We are seeing the web evolving in a significant way, and it's a general trend over several years. The fact that we're moving away from webpages to web applications.

INTERVIEWER: The last couple of years, we've talked a lot about app stores-- online stores selling lightweight applications-- which typically can be downloaded and installed on your smartphone or tablet. Until recently, that mostly happened on the mobile phone, where iPhone and Android of course are the biggest players, even though there are also app stores for the other platforms, Blackberry, Symbiant, Windows Mobile, et cetera. Apple has also made an app store for Mac software on their desktop computers, where the Mac store is actually an integrated part of OS.

But now, we will also use the web apps in our browsers, says, among others, Google and now Mozilla. A web app is in reality, like many mobile apps, just a special wrapper for websites, which makes it easy and straightforward to use to relatively sophisticated pages that are out there. But when the programs move into the browser, you don't have to buy physical boxes of applications on CD's, wrapped in cardboard and plastic and what have we, says Tristan Nitot.

TRISTAN NITOT: Things you used to buy from physical stores and boxes that were shrink wrapped, and you put a CD, the need for applications still exists. It's the way they're distributed which is different.

INTERVIEWER: Google opened its web app store in December partly as preparation for the browser-based operating system Chrome OS. And last week Mozilla officially presented its project at a site that is, however, primarily directed at developers. When I talked to Tristan Nitot in Paris in December, he told me about Mozilla's idea to even consider app stores. And there is at least two advantages, he said.

TRISTAN NITOT: The first one is the ability for the user to discover new applications. Maybe you're looking for an application that is a to-do list, and you have dozens of applications that are all listed in one place, it's easy to find, and it's rated by their users. So that's one thing, you know. Discovering the application is a good thing for the user and the vendors that made the applications.

INTERVIEWER: We've been able to download and buy software on the internet for many years, but it's not always been easy to find the best programs or assess whether the programs are worth the money. Therefore, it's generally a good idea to make assembly sites or shops. And the same is true, of course, for programs that are meant to run in the browser instead of being installed on the computer. The shops simply make it easier for users to find the right apps and easier for developers to have their apps presented to new users. So the idea with online stores is to make it easier to find the right programs and to make it easier for the developers to make money.

Google's Chrome web store fulfilled both needs. But at Mozilla, they haven't been happy with the way Google has solved the problems. If we take Mozilla's focus on openness and flexibility seriously, we have to do things differently, Tristan thinks. It is no use to lock your apps to only one browser, the way it happens on the smartphone market where an Android app cannot be used on a Nokia, and a Nokia app cannot be used on an iPhone unless the developers make separate versions. This is why Mozilla wants to make sure that the apps you buy from them can be used in different browsers.

TRISTAN NITOT: The web is not about forcing you to use a single browser, right? You can use several of them. You may change your mind over time because the competitive landscape has changed and everything. So if you buy an application while you're running Chrome at some point, but you want to be able to run it within Firefox in the future. So not a single browser app store.

INTERVIEWER: At first, it will mean that as a Chrome user, you can install a plug-in, a small add-on that makes you able to run Firefox web applications. Secondly, Mozilla's other major strategy is open app stores, so everyone can make their own store with applications targeted to, for instance, photographers, designers, or whoever.

TRISTAN NITOT: We want people to be able to create their own app store. A business could set up an app store, and people would compete. You would have more choice when it comes to price, competition, and quality, and different services. So it's a very open model, which reflects the open nature of the web.

INTERVIEWER: At the same time, you can customize the store to your own wishes so you don't have to subordinate to other companies more or less reasonable demands, says Tristan, with a thinly concealed reference to particularly Apple, which is notorious for the many and obscure terms for developers. On the other hand, there are also many who believe that more web shops lead to fragmentation, confusion, and uncertainty, kind of like we see today on the smartphones. While there are two or three major companies who sit heavily on the market, there are also a dozen of smaller program stores that it can be hard to find and navigate it, decide whether you trust, and so on. Whether the possibility of more shops provide greater competition and flexibility or lead to confusion and chaos, time will tell. No matter which model, Tristan is pretty sure that the web app stores are here to stay.

TRISTAN NITOT: So I think, yes, there is a need for the stores. Is it over-hyped? Maybe. I'm not so sure.

INTERVIEWER: That was Tristan Nitot from Mozilla's headquarters in Paris. On our website, we link to a download of the latest Firefox browser and Mozilla's project page for the web store. That was the end of HardDisken for this time.

We'll be back next week at 1:03 PM Wednesday and Sunday 4:03 PM. Until then, so long. In the studio, Henrik Føhns and Anders Høgh Nissen. Thank you and good-bye.